On Saturday, September 13 at 12:30, the room located at the end of the main corridor of the event hall of the Merusaka Nusa Dua Hotel, in Bali, offered me perfect silence.
I opened the laptop and resumed the conversation with my AI agent, who, in English, I asked to discuss again how feasible it would be for Blockchain to be adopted in countries whose population is governed by strict traditions and religious obligations. After all, I was in Indonesia, the country with the largest number of Muslims in the world.
I still had an hour and a half left to interview Gavin Wood: Doctor in Computing from the University of York, co-founder of Ethereum -2013, the most used Blockchain in the world, 17.2 billion dollars in daily transactions this year- creator of Solidity, the software for sealing smart contracts on Ethereum (2014); founder of Parity Technologies, a company that develops software infrastructure for Ethereum, 2015; CEO of Web3 Foundation, the organization that invests in research on the future of a decentralized internet (2017); and inventor Polkadot, a Blockchain of Blockchains, or interoperability network of all existing blockchains (2020).
90 minutes, and I would do the most important interview of my life, not only because of the stature of the interviewee, but also because until then Wood had never given a note to a non-specialized media.
90 minutes.
Analyzing, with my AI agent, the pros and cons of making Gavin Wood uncomfortable with some incisive question, I drank water, walked around the table, checked the phone, reviewed data.
Then suddenly the huge, carved wooden door opened and two men dressed in black entered the room.
They asked me in English, who I was and why I was there. I answered “I'm a journalist, and I'm preparing to interview Gavin Wood.”
They confirmed my identity and regained some calm.
They explained to me that that room had been reserved for Gavin Wood himself, and that they arrived earlier to check that everything was in order.
They understood that I didn't know, that it had simply been a misunderstanding. Then they kindly accompanied me to the basement where the filming set was already prepared.
Forty minutes before 2 pm I therefore locked myself in a meeting room in the basement of the hotel and resumed the conversation with my AI agent.
Then I received a message from Giselle Heleg, Manager of Strategic Partnerships and Business Affairs at Polkadot Blockchain Academy (PBA) asking if I was nervous.
"Right! -I thought--now that I'm ready, it's time to thank him." At the end of the day, I was there for her.
Two weeks before landing in Bali, Giselle and I had talked again after a few years of not doing so.
I met her in 2018, at the Buenos Aires Attorney General's Office, when I covered the launch of Prometea, the first predictive system - a simple AI compared to what we know today - applied to Justice, programmed in accordance with the high Human Rights standards in force in our country.
At that time Gigi, a technology expert lawyer, was part of the team of Juan Corvalán, Director of the UBA Artificial Intelligence Laboratory (UBA IALAB), one of the greatest leaders in the development of Artificial Intelligence in Spanish.
Once the laboratory was founded, we researched together, taught at the same postgraduate level and collaborated on pioneering works in the field, such as the Treatise on Artificial Intelligence and Law edited by Thomson Reuters (2021).
Life went on and while I immigrated to the United States, Gigi joined the PBA team, led by Pauline Cohen Vorms and Marina Marchesotti.
In that context, on Tuesday, August 19, Gigi invited me to live and narrate the campus experience in Bali, and cover Governance For New Leadership, where leaders from 39 countries would meet to delve into the opportunities that Blockchain offers in terms of information management.
“Why Indonesia?” I managed to ask him in that video conference.
“Because it is the first country in the world whose government announces that, as part of its digital transformation plan, it will adopt Blockchain to offer citizens transparency and computer security,” she responded forcefully, from exactly the other side of the globe.
I accepted.
I investigated that Indonesia is the country with the largest number of Muslims in the world, but Hinduism also has many followers.
I confirmed that Indonesia is an archipelago of more than 17 thousand islands, of which about 9 thousand are inhabited. In each one there is a dialect, and the geographical and population dispersion make information management a challenge, especially considering the lack of resources.
Thus, on Friday, September 5, I flew from Miami to Doha, and from there to Denpasar, Bali, where a car was waiting to take me to the hotel. It was a 24-hour flight, plus 12 hours of time adjustment and powerful jetlag.
From Sunday the 7th to Tuesday the 9th I simply couldn't accommodate my biorhythm; but then, my surroundings became colorful.
The Bali 2025 edition of the Polkadot Blockchain Academy consisted of, on the one hand, bringing together more than 100 programmers from around the world, who trained and were assisted by Polkadot technologists, to work on use cases that the Prabowo Subianto government proposed: traceability for the fishing industry and decentralized identity accreditation, among others.
On the other hand, non-technical leaders from 40 countries learned about the qualities of Blockchain and its multiple uses. Without reaching the code, they saw its potential, analyzed regulatory frameworks, understood that Web 3 represents an evolution that is gaining ground.
The development that Indonesia already has mounted on Polkadot, called Mandala Chain, is the first instrument that the country has managed to put into practice, also thinking - in addition to fish exports and citizen identity - in banking and health information.
Adrian Keet, Indonesian, is one of the main people behind Mandala Chain.
In a conversation with Perfil, together with Ery Punta (from the same country), Advisor of Mandala Chain and president of the Indonesian Blockchain Society, Keet points out “we created Mandala Chain because we understood that Indonesia needs to digitize the management of public information, which appears in the government's digital transformation plan planned until 2045, but then we went directly to the most efficient, that is, we did it on Blockchain, because its architecture guarantees transparency, security, traceability and immutability.”
Punta adds "recently the parliament of our country voted something similar to the European GDPR, but we chose Blockchain because we know of its potential. Right now we are carrying out the ID Chain project, with which we offer citizens the possibility of identifying themselves with different credentials depending on the situation."
Regarding the particular interest in adopting Blockchain for traceability in fish exports, Ery Punta emphasizes: "our clients are sometimes complaining to us for merchandise that we have not sold (...) in terms of fishery exports, it is not easy to provide certainty to all the actors involved in the business. That is why Mandala Chain is essential."
The Polkadot Blockchain has demonstrated robustness and resilience, according to experts. In fact, while there were alterations or hacks in other blockchains, Gavin Wood's latest creation was conceived as a reinforced Blockchain because each transaction - each action carried out on that network - is validated by a node, or third-party validator.
In addition, Polkadot is made up of several blockchains that operate in parallel - which is why they are called parachains - interconnected through a Relay Chain, or central chain, which means that if a part of the network goes down, it does not affect the operation of the whole.
It sounds abstract and brilliant at the same time, without a doubt, and even more so if we consider that all this happens on the immaterial plane, that is, it is pure software. The decentralized and distributed storage system, and validations, occur between the members of each Blockchain, that is, its devices connected to the internet.
Servers are not needed as in the centralized storage model that we know today; In slang terms: “we don’t need the middleman anymore.”
Let's return to the relationship between the country with the largest number of Muslims in the world and Blockchain.
“Indonesia has around 50 million cryptocurrency users - 20% of the total population - and it is the country where the use of this technology grew the most during 2024,” says Mas Witjaksono, Indonesian, one of the richest and most influential businessmen in his country, founder of the Globalasia Infrastructure Fund, and one of the greatest leaders of the Muslim community in the country.
“More than 65 percent of our population is young - less than 30 years old - and they are willing to use new technologies to grow, but we need a lot of education so that our political leaders, who are not so young -laughs- in charge of regulating Blockchain, can do so without hindering innovation” he explains.
At 15 minutes before 2 in the afternoon, the tension in the basement of the Merusaka Nusa Dua Hotel is growing.
Someone from the organization's press team tells me that I will have just over 20 minutes with Gavin Wood, because then he will give another interview, for a crypto media outlet.
The bodyguard with whom I arrived at the conference room looks out and asks me if I have ever spoken to Wood before. I answer no, and he asks me if I'm interested in chatting a little off the record before the interview.
Of course I accept, especially after having witnessed his talk two days before, in which I had him in front of me for the first time.
For half an hour, generally looking at the ground and with a circumspect tone, he reflected on the foundations and future of modern society.
“More truth and less trust” was one of the ideas he returned to several times using a more than sober on-screen presentation.
“People trust entities such as governments or companies whose operation is protected by contracts and laws, but it turns out that generally these rules, if we analyze them, are nothing more than whims,” he said with some annoyance, before a fascinated audience.
Likewise, he emphasized the need to educate so that the decisions we make are rational, and not based on emotions.
Beyond his harsh postulates in relation to what is known as the Information (or data) Economy, when asked by the public, Wood suggested that he has a curiosity about human life that surpasses his skepticism.
Do you want a more just world? Yes, according to his expressions in that part of the talk in which he prepared to answer questions. Perhaps that explains why, according to CNBC, in 2022 he donated $5.8 million to Ukraine, a month after it was invaded by Russia.
In line with the above, Pauline Cohen Vorms, French, CEO of Polkadot Blockchain Academy stated “We have decided to offer a specific program for decision makers, especially in different areas of government, because we believe that it is important that technology serves to make society better.”
She, together with Marina Marchesotti, Argentine, business manager of the same entity, are in charge of disseminating the Web3 philosophy - and Polkadot's educational programs - whose principles are summarized in: a) the data belongs to those who generate it, and no one else; b) digital transactions must be secure worldwide; c) digital exchanges of information and value must be decentralized.
“Indonesia has a dispersion for which the decentralization of Blockchain is very good, even because with the communities that can be generated - N of R: reference to DAOs, autonomous and decentralized organizations - it is possible for each member to have a voice and vote, with a simple infrastructure, which this country lacks” explained Marchesotti.
The talk with both clarifies simple and forceful visions about this new internet. "We no longer need a middleman for art to have value and be recognized - explains Cohen Vorms - because a platform mounted on Blockchain ensures that you can exhibit your work and someone can buy it. In the model we have known so far, the companies that centralize the information keep most of the value." “That is the main reason why I became interested in this technology,” adds Marchesotti, who was a show producer.
While we talk, on the television set in the central hall, the landscape is so varied that it is difficult to describe it.
In Bali, tradition indicates that every Thursday those who work in the service sector wear special outfits, which include long and plaid skirts, for both men and women.
The program of daily activities distributed by the campus organization indicates, after each break, a time to pray - which occurs in specific places, separated by sex - because the Muslim population stops five times a day to pray.
Many women wear their heads covered.
The name of each person is made up of no less than 4 words, which can indicate sex, birth order in the family, and membership in a caste, in addition to the name itself and its surname; but in Indonesia this changes from island to island.
The hallways are home to permanent spontaneous meetings, and the interculturality is captivating. All ethnicities are represented.
“I make the technology that the world needs”
Okay, it's 2 in the afternoon.
The technicians are ready. We are going to film because the interview is part of a documentary.
Someone places two wireless microphones on me and tells me to sit on the left. Then Gavin Wood comes down the stairs, dressed all in black, with a cup of coffee in his right hand.
Smile slightly. He admits that he doesn't like football, but he does like Buenos Aires, where he was twice.
We've been hearing lately about the upcoming release of JAM, something you defined as a “universal computer.” Could you explain exactly what it is?
It is essentially an upgrade of Polkadot, which will allow, beyond technical details, that many more applications can be mounted on our platform, and, in addition, will make it possible for many more people to understand our technology.
As you know, this is a crucial point, and that is partly why we promoted this academy. We need more developers to learn how to use our protocol, and with JAM -Join-Accumulated Machine- we are going to encourage more independent programmers, students and practitioners to adopt the type of code I wrote.
Talking about the adoption of the technology, statistics show that Blockchain users are between 300 and 500 million worldwide. Don't you think that as long as Blockchain continues to be associated with cryptocurrencies and speculation, we won't see truly mass adoption?
Absolutely. That's why, since I founded Parity Technologies, a decade ago, I have been working to develop solutions with the remaining 8 billion in mind - he laughs.
We all know the potential of Blockchain, but it is still a difficult technology for what you usually call “normal people”. Now, these people are losing confidence in democracy. Do you think that Autonomous and Decentralized Organizations -DAOs- can be an answer to the current crisis of trust?
Yeah. Let's see, my purpose is to create technological solutions that make my life better and, if possible, the lives of others. But in a way, I also do it because I believe that today the world needs this new way of designing technological products.
We didn't have this in mind when I was born in 1980. But in truth, applications and platforms determine the way we engage with society. They, in turn, feed on the massive use we make of their solutions.
Now, if we think about banks or companies, today we know that their most valuable asset is the network they have built - referring to their clients - but there are always those entities in the middle, as the axes of every link between human beings; and there are always human beings feeding those networks.
Obviously we must assume that there is a current version of what philosophers have called 'social contract'.
But notice that many times, when we acquire technological products, we sign licensing contracts of dozens of pages, whose clauses could not be clearly explained even by a lawyer if they went to trial.
Is it reasonable that we should do this? No, of course. Above all, because, described in this way, this revalidation of the social contract remains opaque, unintelligible, for citizens, who, if they demand clarity, run the risk of being left out of the system.
And I think this is what contributes to the disillusionment that people have today. That's why I think the technology I'm building brings clarity and minimizes the amount of rules that are imposed on us.
It is clear that you are trying to create technologies that remove intermediaries from our hands, but don't you think it is difficult for people to imagine a society without those intermediaries, which are, in short, governments or companies?
Yes, I totally agree. It is difficult to imagine, when we navigate calm waters. However, that is not currently the reality. The waters are choppy, and I think people are opening their eyes, willing to try new things.
Furthermore, to paraphrase a thinker whose name I now forget, it is foolish to change the system by fighting against it; Instead, it is much better to create a new paradigm and let things evolve.
In November, see you in Argentina
The conversation with Gavin Wood continues, carefully analyzing stablecoins - an escape route to translate common money into crypto and transact with less friction, with the risk that bank accounts can be seized, as he himself explains - and the attitude of governments in regulatory matters "they do not pursue the best for society, sometimes out of ignorance, other times because they are only interested in their profit, although there are also people who do things well."
The need to “maintain the status quo” conspires against the possibility of innovation “because unfortunately no one who has power likes to take risks.” In that sense, compare the current scenario with the way Google launched its portfolio of solutions some twenty years ago “it would have been an extraordinary experiment if it had been adopted at that time by the public sector, to simplify paying taxes, obtaining a driver's license, etc. but politicians were not going to trust in such an innovation, partly also because the youngest are the ones who are willing to make big differences.”
Gavin Wood understands that the same disconnection between the public and private sectors occurs today around Web 3, the paradigm that he himself created, even when “billions of dollars are transacted on Blockchain platforms daily and, especially the technology that I have created has been tested sufficiently in terms of security, so that there is practically no risk.”
I shake his hand and thank him again for his willingness.
He smiles, and says goodbye to me with a “see you in Argentina” in reference to the 3 presentations that Polkadot Blockchain Academy will make in November -Buenos Aires, Santiago del Estero and Mendoza- as part of Sub0 Symbiosis, where the entire Blockchain community in Latin America will have the opportunity to see the greatest exponents of this technology live and direct.
It will be a pleasure.